Previous post found here
So we met up for lunch yesterday.We chatted a bit about our backgrounds and mutual friends. He asked me what questions I had, and he stoped the conversation. He said he wanted to make it clear that he’s not proselytizing, marketing, or otherwise trying to convert me. I told him I appreciated that, and I likely wont agree with him on a lot of stuff, and the chief purpose I was asking questions was knowledge for knowledge’s sake.
I told him a little later that I believe that the LDS church will eventually start hemorrhaging members at an even faster rate. There will inevitably be new sects that arise from those ashes. I told him it would be much cooler if we were all able to talk to each other as family instead of letting our differences divide us. I told him we are ethnic Mormons, which means that we have a lot of background knowledge about each other just as a default. I told him where we take that ethnic identity is up to us, and I would rather take it to a place of comradery. He agreed.
Anyway, we talked for several hours, and we didn’t even get through 1/3 of all the questions that I had. Many of the questions were the same answers that /u/SaraLynn57, /u/RemnantThrowaway, /u/SaturnsEarth, and /u/DeCryingShame gave on the previous post. There were only a couple differences in what my friend said. Those are the ones I will detail.
What is the proper term for this movement? Is “Snufferite” a derogatory term (when though it follows other Mormon sect meaning conventions)?
My friend said he doesn’t really care, Remnant movement, Remnant Fellowship, Snufferites, it all gets the same message across.
He also recognized that the “-ite” is the standard for distinguishing between different founders of Mormonism (Bickertonite, Bighamite, Josephite, Strangite, etc)
How/why is membership tracked?
He said that the baptism names and dates (if known) are given to The Recorder’s Clearinghouse, who writes the names in a book which will one day be put in the temple in New Jerusalem during the millenium. He said this is the only official calling within the movement.
How does priesthood ordination and authority work? Can priesthood be expressly given or revoked? … Are there callings/offices like deacon, teacher, priest, elder, high priest, seventy, patriarch/evangelist apostle, and prophet?
My friend specified that the section that gave the priesthood offices was removed from canon because it was outdated. He said it was the early saints that wanted to have equivalents like that, not God. He said if you had to call any office something, it would just be a generic “priest”.
He said that all me n who were ordained before the April 2014 LDS General Conference still held the priesthood. Otherwise, they needed to be specifically ordained.
Men are allowed to practice the priesthood outside of their home, men have to have 7 women sign a certificate vouching for him. If the man is married one of the women must be his wife. It takes 12 women to make a resolution to reverse this.
All of these specifications are given in “Guide and Standards“
When and why did the church fall into apostasy? Are we in a new dispensation?
He said this had a very long answer, and he wasn’t wrong. He tried to give me a condensed version of the reasons why, but it was still a little hard for me to follow. I did a bit of research and I think this is the full reason but it is loooooong.
Essentially, as I understand it, the LDS church broke covenants, and in 2014 the church sustained the leaders who lead the charge of breaking those covenants. In doing so the LDS church came under 100% apostasy, whereas before it was only a partial apostasy.
I asked if we were in a new dispensation, and he said yes. I asked him what a dispensation was and he said that it is when the Lord restarts his work in saving men.
Can women hold the priesthood? Why or why not?
His answer was “not yet”. They will be given the priesthood in the millenium. Until then, the Lord has allowed women to become a check and balance on who is allowed to publicly practice the priesthood.
Is Denver Snuffer your prophet? If not, what’s the difference? If so, who will be his successor? If no successor, will the movement just fizzle or will there be a succession crisis like after Joseph Smith died?
He gave a couple different definitions about what a prophet is. Some he said many people are prophets, other definitions were so specific that only Denver Snuffer qualified.
I asked him if Denver Snuffer were to have a heart attack and die today if the movement would survive. He said no. He said that they kind of have a “Zion or bust” mentality. If they don’t get it done in Denver Snuffer’s lifetime, it simply wont get done.
Why is it only he has a specific part in the Teachings & Commandments (Their Doctrine & Covenants)? Is Denver Snuffer the only one who is allowed to make revelations for the fellowship?
He essentially said that Denver has a closer connection to God than others, so anything that has been presented has been highly criticized. The “Guide and Standards” was presented by a guy who was raked over the coals. His revelation was essentially thrown out and a committee was appointed to rewrite it.
In theory anyone could propose something, but I don’t think that will ever happen in practice.
Why are there not Kirtland temple dedication/School of Prophets type spiritual experiences anymore?
He said very plainly its because there hasn’t been a temple accepted by the Lord.
I talked to him a bit about the Smith-Entheogen theory and how it could be a naturalistic explanation for the experiences there. He laughed and said that that is just a theory that tries to explain the unexplainable.
What will the function of the temple be? A meeting place? Endowment? Baptism for the dead? Sealing? Law of Adoption? What will these ceremonies look like?
He said he wasn’t quite sure, but speculated that it would likely function closer to Kirtland. He also threw out ideas like having it be similar to a library or a university.
Are there talks of where the temple will be built? In Independence, MO?
He laughed and said that the New Jerusalem wouldn’t be built there. He said it would likely be built somewhere in the Rocky Mountains, and made a veiled reference to the Rocky Mountains Prophecy.
Who owns the funds for building the temple?
He said 3 women entirely own it. I asked what would prevent them from running with the money, and he said nothing. If they wanted to, they could.
He also noted that their temple fund is upwards of a million dollars.
What is the “Restoration Scriptures Foundation” and “Restoration Archive LLC”? Is it a legal expression of the Remnant? Do they own the copyright to the scriptures?
This is the only legal entity within the movement. He said they needed a legal organization in order to print the scriptures.
He said that this organization definitely owns the scriptures.
What is the nature of God (Trinitarian (New York-era), binitarianism (Kirtland-era), or tri-theism (Nauvoo-era))
He said that a lot of those differences are in the punctuations on the part of the printers. I know that there are some foundational theological differences that can’t be solely chalked up to punctuation, but I decided not to push this.
Does the remnant have a system for excommunication or disfellowship?
No. The closest thing is revoking a man’s ability to publicly practice the priesthood.
It was very informative. he was amazed at how many questions I had and how well read I came to this conversation. He said that we should have lunch again sometime so we can keep talking. I agreed and we parted ways.
It was a good experience.